One of the things we did was read Plato. This wasn't too new, since I had read Plato in High School and remained unimpressed. However, after reading him more extensively and in more detail, the more I liked his character Socrates and how Socrates went about talking with people.

Enter then, the Classical World Project, in which we had to write a dialog between any mythological or historical characters. I knew that I had to write for Socrates somehow, partially since I would have an easy time, since he practically writes himself, and partially because I wanted to have some fun with the characters I had been reading about for so long.

Here then, is the dialog I wrote in its entirety. Please note that, if I were writing this dialog solely for pleasure, it would be significantly longer and more in-depth. But, the time constraints of the school year forced me to cut it short.

Zeus: Look, my Queen, see how the Romans have become the major power upon the earth. They have struggled mightily from their humble beginnings as refugees of Troy and they have been rewarded. Certainly, they are the most glorious civilization of the world.

Hera: So it seems, my dearest husband. They assuredly have conquered many peoples. But, somehow I think they cannot compare to the noble civilization of Hellas.

Zeus: Come now, my Queen, surely you do not still hold a grudge against the civilization of Aeneas.

Hera: Of course not my Kingly husband. I willingly gave up that grudge at your bidding. I would never dream of resisting your will. I simply think that the Greeks were a far greater society than the Romans could ever contemplate. Their art, their writing, their speaking, their lifestyle, everything about them was superior.

Zeus: I see that little changes in the heavens of Olympus. What I do not see however, is how you can contest that the Romans are the greatest civilization the world has ever known. They are the most pious people I have seen for quite a while, and you surely cannot deny that they have conquered an impressive number of their neighbors.

Hera: Perhaps, mighty brother, but I still am persuaded otherwise. We are at an impasse then. Shall I bow to your will as I always do?

Zeus: No. I desire to examine this further. If I cannot convince you myself, perhaps one of their own can. I shall call forth their most recent leader. The visionary, the conqueror, the unifier of Rome, perhaps the best emperor they will ever have. Caesar Augustus.

Hera: Wait, my King. If you desire fairness in persuasion, I shall demand it. I will call forth one of Greece's own. The greatest thinker of the world. The center of intellectual thought for millennia to come. The epitome of Greek culture. None other than Socrates himself.

Zeus: Let it be so then.

Zeus: Gentlemen, you have been called here by a divine command. It is our wish for you both to establish which is the greater civilization: Greece or Rome. I trust you both have the knowledge you need on the subject?

Augustus: Yes my Lord. I was well versed in the history of Greece when I was living.

Socrates: Heavenly father, I have been kept quite aware of the doings of this world while in the land of the shades. Many of the freshly dead have I talked with during my current internment in Hades.

Zeus: All is as it should be then. Augustus, you may begin.

Augustus: Heavenly Father, Royal Queen, and philosopher Socrates. I have ruled Rome for many years. I have guided its history and directed its future. I, of all people should know that Rome is the greatest civilization the world has ever known. I personally have conquered much of the land Rome now sits upon. The vastness of her territory is testament to her power and greatness.

Her people also demonstrate the glory of Rome. Even most of the barbarians that I have conquered are willing to become civilized rather than cling to their dead cultures. Many of them have become citizens of Rome already. Surely, that shows that once our culture makes itself manifest to others, even the most prideful barbarian will recognize our superiority.

Socrates: I am glad Augustus that you are so certain of Rome's greatness. It gives me heart to know that someone has such a good idea of what greatness is. Now, it is your belief that conquering much makes for a great state. Is that what makes the essence of a great state?

Augustus: I only have just said as much Socrates.

Socrates: I find that puzzling. Take for example a criminal, a low-born thug who has extraordinary strength. Also imagine that this thug has happened by a town full of people who are significantly weaker than he is. Wouldn't you say, Augustus, that this thug could take control over the people of the town one by one by exhibiting violence?

Augustus: Yes Socrates.

Socrates: Wouldn't you also say that the people he controls only allow him control out of convenience and cowardice, as it is easier to allow control rather than to resist?

Augustus: I would have to Socrates.

Socrates: And finally, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that that thug is still no more than a thug, despite the fact that he holds control over many people?

Augustus: Yes.

Socrates: Then it would seem then that Rome has mastered little more than the understanding of common sense. That when a more powerful people conquers a less powerful people, the less powerful will usually prefer to stay alive rather than die. How many people this happens to effects not a bit the measure of greatness a civilization, or a person, has.

Augustus: Perhaps I was not clear Socrates. Conquering is only a means to an end. A prerequisite to greatness. By assimilating other cultures through conquering them, we have brought civilization upon barbarians. We have brought peace and order to previously warlike states. We have shown them a superior way of life.

Socrates: Truly you believe that your culture is "superior", but we will leave a discussion of that for a later time. Is your imposition of peace and order different from that of any other civilization?

Augustus: Yes it is. For Rome is the largest of all nations. We have established law and order over the greatest area and over the most number of people than any other civilization has before. Our country is also a pious people, and our actions have divine sanction. We would never be the people that we are without the help of the Gods.

Socrates: Surely Augustus, you do not presume to say that this is special knowledge, for everything happens as our heavenly father wills. Nothing can counteract his overwhelming power. So, whether Rome prospers today or tomorrow with Zeus' consent is not a contestable issue. Wouldn't you say Augustus?

Augustus: Well, I cannot deny it.

Socrates: It is also obvious that every state attempts to establish law and order over the lands and people it controls. It is what separates the state from anarchy. This is nothing new.

Augustus: It may not be something new, but the Romans do it the most, and the best.

Socrates: That is a very self-confident statement Augustus! But, perhaps, pacification and law is not the true measure of greatness.

Augustus: What do you have in mind Socrates?

Socrates: Perhaps it is best explained by analogy. Wouldn't you agree Augustus, that Hades is the largest country of all? And that it pacifies the most people in the world?

Augustus: Surely it does so, but Hades has little to do with earthly countries.

Socrates: If you will allow me to continue my analogy, perhaps you will see what I mean. Hades pacifies and rules the most people of all. Eventually, it will conquer all the people of earth, will it not?

Augustus: Yes.

Socrates: But we do not call the Kingdom of Hades 'Great' do we?

Augustus: We certainly do not Socrates.

Socrates: But, by your criteria, it should be called the greatest of all kingdoms, should it not?

Augustus: Perhaps.

Socrates: Yes. Perhaps it should my friend Augustus. But the reason it is not called as such is because the true form of greatness is not rule, order, law and pacification. It is how Hades pacifies that makes it lose its potential greatness. It is not what the country does, but what it is that makes or breaks its greatness. Pacification and law may be a prerequisite for greatness, but it does not guarantee greatness itself. A great state will provide for the happiness and prosperity of its citizens. One that does so may be called 'Great'. But, perhaps, even that will not be sufficient for a state to be called great.

For you see Augustus, it is only through rational thought and philosophy that we can even discover what greatness really is. Therefore, intellectualism is the key to discovering a great state. When a state discovers what can lead it to greatness, the state will naturally pursue it. The intellectualism that leads to this discovery will last throughout the ages, while conquering empires will simply rise and fall.

And I daresay that it was the Greek states, in particular my home, Athens, that had this quality of intellectualism. My home has produced more philosophical thought than Rome can or will. And certainly our expressions in art and literature are beyond contesting.

Therefore, I am forced think that the Greek civilization is closer on the track of greatness than is Rome. Perhaps it is not great itself, but knowing that fact in of itself is the first step on the path.

Zeus: Socrates. I am troubled by your definition of a great state. I do not think you have been fair in your discussion here.

Socrates: Please, heavenly father, speak so that I may know where I have wandered away from the path of truth.

Zeus: You have defined greatness in terms of itself. Greatness is achieved by acknowledging what greatness is, and pursuing it. How can such a circular notion ever be the definition of 'Great'?

Socrates: Perhaps I have misspoken myself, all-powerful Lord of the Sky. Let me ask you a question. You would agree that a prerequisite to a civilization's greatness is that civilization's establishment of law and order, correct?

Zeus: Yes Socrates.

Socrates: Would you not also agree that law and order are a prerequisite to civilization itself? That is, there could not, by definition, be a civilization without some kind of law and order, much less a great civilization?

Zeus: That certainly is true Socrates.

Augustus: And I also agree Socrates, for this is what I've been saying all along.

Socrates: Well, then, intellectualism is like that, it is a prerequisite to greatness. One cannot have greatness in a state if the state does not pursue greatness. And a state cannot pursue greatness if it does not know what it is. However, there is one crucial difference between my position and my friend Augustus'. Law and order is established by any civilization worth the name. Intellectualism is not. Therefore, in the grand scheme of things, a civilization that produces intellectuals if closer to the path of greatness than is a civilization that simply establishes order like any other civilization of the world does.

Augustus: Hold for a minute Socrates. I think that you are missing something. Having peace in which to pursue intellectual pursuits can only be given by law and order. It is the state's most primary interest, therefore, to produce law and order in the highest quantity and in the highest quality it can muster. Then intellectualism will grow naturally, as it would in a plant put in the right soil. Rome has achieved the largest quantity of pacification than has any other civilization previous to it. I would have to say then, that Rome is a more conducive environment to intellectuals, which will appear naturally if given the chance.

Socrates: So it would seem then, we have a question of value on our hands. Which is the more important Augustus, the land to grow the crops on or the crops themselves?

Augustus: The land, because it is possible to yield large amounts of crops year after year with the right kind of land.

Socrates: And I would value the crops more, since the crops demonstrate that the land is bountiful. For while all land can be acquired by man, not all land can be used by man for growing crops. When something has been produced already that can be used and cherished, that is when I put the value in the land, and so to the man who tills it.

Augustus: I see Socrates.

Socrates: This question of value then, seems to be built on personal preference, rather than any kind of abstract truth. Perhaps the one who has called us can answer the question of what is ultimately more valuable. If anyone should be close to the truth, it should be our Father in heaven. Tell us, great Zeus, what are your thoughts on the issue?

Zeus: Socrates, you are a bold questioner. The thoughts and will of Zeus are his own, impenetrable to mortals such as yourself and only dispensed at my pleasure. The truth of this matter was to be explained by Augustus to my heavenly wife. If you wish to contest what Augustus is saying, you will have to devise your own means at arriving at truth. I will not help you.

Socrates: Oh heavenly father! Such a hard will you have to withhold such information from us curious participants! We, who are only eager to get to the bottom of this matter.

Hera: Yes my husband, you certainly seem unwilling to answer a simple mortal's question. And perhaps this could resolve the disagreement betwixt you and myself. I bid you, speak to Socrates.

Augustus: And I too, Sir, would be honored with an answer to this question, whichever way it may be answered.

Zeus: I am the son of Kronos, the Great wielder of the heavenly flame, King of Olympus and of all the Gods. My will is my own and can be bent by no one. Both mortals and Gods must obey me. This knowledge that you seek shall not be known here by my willful agency.

Socrates: I have no choice but to bow to your wishes heavenly father, but I cannot help but think you are helping answer the question.

Zeus: What nonsense is this? Begone from my sight!

Hera: Ah, always it is this way with you my most stubborn husband. The slightest dissent is met with the most outrageous and outlandish display of power. You would send away the greatest philosopher the world has known simply because he stands in the way of the tiniest detail of your will at the moment. But this shall not be. I will not allow it this time. While I may not hold the great power that you hold, my husband, I can tell you this: allow Socrates to continue, or Aphrodite will be hard-pressed to find a reason to visit us for the rest of eternity!

Zeus: So be it then. Continue Socrates.

Socrates: I do not wish to become the source of any kind of divine consternation, but I feel obligated to continue. I see, heavenly father, that you both certainly rule much land….

Zeus: More so than all of the earthly kingdoms put together.

Socrates: …and wield supremely conquering power.

Zeus: The power to overthrow my corrupt father and to cast down the scourge of the unholy Titans. What of it Socrates?

Socrates: It would seem then, that your situation is much like that or Rome's. Wouldn't you agree Augustus?

Augustus: There certainly are similarities, but any earthly kingdom pales in comparison to Zeus' kingdom of Heaven.

Socrates: Certainly so, but that is only a matter of scale. So then, Rome and Zeus' kingdom are quite similar. And they are more similar than simply power and land. They also both have rulers that believe power is the ultimate determiner of greatness. I have only just heard you, Zeus, call yourself the "Great wielder of the heavenly flame." So, what is Great, according to the ultimate divine authority? Power. Yet, what is the result of contact with this power? Strife and the withholding of knowledge: ignorance. The choking and the cutting off of the discussion on what Greatness is. A discussion that, if Greatness were truly only a result of power, would eventually point to that fact. Or, to continue my analogy, the discussion would be a land that, if Greatness truly were there, would bring forth multiple fruits and grains.

As I have said before, any thug can wield power but not be Great. I will extend my remarks and say that any thug can wield power and declare himself 'Great'. And this thug can also stamp down any dissent, but that does not make him Great either. Far be it for me to call the ultimate God in heaven a thug, I can only look at the results of your Divine actions and state my observations.

Zeus: So this is Socrates. Nothing holds sacred for you. You even question the greatness of the Lord of Olympus. I have brought order to the earth. I have guided its past and direct its future, yet none of this can convince you of my Greatness.

Socrates: I know that you are Great, great Lord, but only in discovering what makes you great are we going to discover what makes Rome greater than Greece, or Greece greater than Rome. The free flow of knowledge is what set Greece on the path to greatness, and the stifling of knowledge is what prevents me from seeing the true form of yours.

Zeus: I have no more time for this. This can lead to no good end. I am Great because I wield the most power. Fruitless discussions of what truly is Great leads only to much wasted breath and distortions of truth and common sense. I declare that I am Great and, logically, Rome is Great for the same reasons. Because Rome holds more power than Greece, it is greater than Greece. Hera, my wife, you were correct: you will bow to my supreme will after all. Socrates and Augustus, your duty is done here. Depart from me now, and leave the heavens in peace.